Finding Hope in a Mess
A Conversation with Jessica Shannon
[Kristina] Welcome to the After He Said Cancer podcast. I am your host, Kristina Adams Waldorf, and I am really excited today to talk with Jessica Shannon, MDiv, BCC. She is a board-certified chaplain in Houston with expertise in helping people confront grief. She is also a writer and an accomplished equestrian.
Jessica, would you please tell me a little bit about yourself?
[Jessica] I have been sort of swimming in grief, professionally and personally, for most of my adult life. It’s really been a compass for everything that I do.
When I was 17 years old, my mom was diagnosed with a brain tumor. It was two weeks before Christmas, my senior year of high school. I had not yet decided where I was going to college. I had decided where I was going to apply, but I hadn't even sent the applications in yet.
We knew about her brain tumor for 11 days, and then she died. He death obviously changed the trajectory of a lot of things in my life.
My first words were that she's not going to see me graduate from high school. And that's the first thing. And within a few years, I lost my mom, my paternal grandparents, all of the animals that I grew up with, including my horse that I shared with my mother. And when I lost my horse, it was like losing her all over again, because he was really my, my own personal connection with her, right?
[Kristina] Are there principles that guide you in your work as a hospital chaplain?
[Jessica] Chaplains help people find hope in a mess. And we're all in some sort of a mess. Whether you're diagnosed with cancer, have a loved one with cancer, or are admitted to a hospital facing a new diagnosis -- everyone's in some sort of a mess. And everybody needs to find hope in something. Chaplains are present for people of all faiths and no faith at all.
I have 15 years of experience as a pediatric chaplain, so my focus is on children, childhood trauma, cancer, and the neonatal intensive care unit. Interestingly, children cope using hope. The core of grief for me is to help people find the source of hope that helps them through the moments of each day and process the big feelings instead of putting them under the rug.
When we allow grief in and accept the big feelings that come with it, it is a compass for our new normal and for rebuilding the sort of mosaic that we become after grief. Things go back together, but they are not the same. Yet, they are equally beautiful.
[Kristina] What lessons do you think you have learned in your personal life and your career?
[Jessica] Well, a lot of it is that hope is sometimes hard to see and find. In a faith context, people sometimes feel abandoned by God, but God and hope are still there. Some days, we have to dig a little deeper.
Whether you are grieving yourself or caring for someone who is grieving, there is no timeline. It’s been 26 years and I'm still grieving my mom. It's just a different grief.
Grief is also cumulative and can resurface feelings of a different period of grief for someone else. Grief isn't linear. When we lose someone or an animal, it can bring so much back. It's okay to still be triggered years later. There are also many different types and layers of grief. There is not just death grief; there is also anticipatory grief.
[Kristina] It took me a long time to understand that anticipatory grief is a thing and to have it normalized for me. In retrospect, my self-judgment that I was a bad spouse and couldn’t be strong for my husband prevented me from moving through my grief.
[Jessica] As a bereaved person and a chaplain, I have a list of things never to tell someone. ‘Be strong’ is one of those things not to say. When I hear someone say this, I try to reframe it. I ask them, what does strong look like for you? Perhaps being strong is being authentic with your feelings or grieving out loud. When you do this, you are also teaching your children how to grieve. When you cry in your room alone, your children might think that’s how they need to cope and hide their grief. We shouldn't hide our grief. It’s better to be authentic and real with our feelings.
[Kristina] I really like this framing. What would you say to the readers out there who are grieving and struggling?
[Jessica] I would encourage anyone grieving to take it day by day and to give yourself grace. Don’t think that you need to be at a specific point in your grief at a particular time. Take away the “should’s” that are cluttering your brain. Everyone grieves differently. The five stages of grief were written for the dying person, not the bereaved. Often, we get caught up in the “five stages” of grief, thinking that there is an order to grief or that we can check off a certain stage that we have passed through. Give yourself grace and release the idea that there's a timeline. Let yourself feel the emotions flowing through you.
[Kristina] Thank you for your time today. I really appreciate talking to you.
[Jessica] You're very welcome. Thank you for having me.
If you would like to find Jessica Shannon on Substack, she writes “Hope in a Mess”.
Here are a few of her posts that resonate with me:
1. Move Forward, Please. “Give yourself grace in your grief, and surround yourself with people who make you feel safe enough to tell silly, sweet, and sad stories about the people and pets you miss regardless of how long it’s been since they died.”
2. Favorite Hellos and Hardest Goodbyes. “Grief is cumulative. We re-grieve past losses when we lose someone else. We are grieving the sudden loss of a beloved best friend, Buckley, and our grief over Oliver, Lily, and Daisy has been triggered. We never stopped grieving their losses, but they’re at the surface now.”
If you would like to read other posts that I have written on grief, here are a few:
How It Began. This story is the origins of my Substack and tells of the first moment when we learned of my husband’s breast cancer diagnosis. https://www.afterhesaidcancer.com/p/how-it-began
The Day He Nearly Died. The story of my husband’s near death in the middle of chemotherapy from a blood clot. https://www.afterhesaidcancer.com/p/the-day-he-nearly-died
A Low Priority. Caregivers are typically forgotten by the healthcare system, even when they are depressed. https://www.afterhesaidcancer.com/p/a-low-priority?r=1acedj
Well Dressed and Smiling. A story about the postpartum grief of one of my patients. https://www.afterhesaidcancer.com/p/well-dressed-and-smiling?r=1acedj
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Thank you for such a generous and insightful conversation Kristina and Jessica! This interview is full of powerful reflections on grief - its non-linearity, the way it accumulates over time, and the importance of holding onto hope that life can still be beautiful in the wake of great loss. I especially appreciated the discussion about the "be strong" platitude - this was one of the most painful things I heard after my dad died. As if shedding tears or showing real, raw, human emotions is a weakness. These kinds of honest, nuanced conversations are so important for shifting how we collectively understand and talk about grief.
I was waiting for her to bring up the point that grieving doesn’t end at some point and then you bounce back to what you were before your loss. -Right up front she mentions that it doesn’t go away. You are indeed changed. The part I am still coming to terms with is that that new person you become can also be something beautiful. It doesn’t have to be a “lesser” version of yourself from what you were before your loss. Food for thought.
I also valued her mentioning the concept of cumulative grief. I’ve never heard of that before and it absolutely rings true. In my mind I expect the grief to be linear- matched to the loss you suffered only. But this has not been true for me. My “triggers” may not be directly related to the loss of my brother yet it may dredge up those same feelings Ava memories.
The human mind is complex. Made more so by life experiences as we live each day. I appreciate this insight you’ve shared. 💜